RC Sproul passed on, aged 78 years, on December 14, 2017 in Altamonte Springs, Seminole County, Florida. agreed: if a person does not want to stop drinking, they cant be forced; but if the person gets into enough trouble (ie. Based on everything Im reading about this guy in this thread and the OP by various people, (that he joined an adultery site, hes been a bully for years, is authoritarian, he has his church ostracize ex members, etc) are you saying that this bad fruit should be ignored, all because the guy is also an alcoholic? Exactly. Has been dry since Nov. 29, 2016. Or we edit the comment by replacing the word codependent with some other word, and then publish the comment. *rar , '*& . There just arent that many emotionally healthy churches who even know how to genuinely love sober people, let alone the chemically dependent ones. She said, he needs to be born again as this persistent pattern of behaviour shows he is NOT regenerate and is NOT in Christ at all. In my view and experience with RC Jr shes absolutely correct. is obviously angry and much of it is rightly so. Even if they were a woman. The church became a sounding gong and clanging cymbal. In 2005, I was 13 years old and my family had just joined R.C. I am sorry that you do not feel that you got any good help for your situation. I would hope we don't condemn his parenting or assume he is an enabler when we have no proof of this. I dont know if its a churchs responsibility or not to pressure or cajole someone with a problem into some kind of treatment. Maybe she was advocating for it to be done in public (? IMO, some things about the so called Dark Ages were not all that dark, and this idea is one. No sir (or maam), I did not create a false correlation. Velour wrote: Welcome to TWW! Rank Hath Its Privileges, Thats just not cool. For many, if the self-med is alcohol or drugs or opioids, this requires medical help; and very likely psychiatric intervention and follow up also. I am not giving him a pass on his abusive behavior. So these people are not mean or manipulative as far as you know, but the last time you saw one their wives try to tell them they had too much on board, what was their reactionsweetness and lightthank you dear for reminding me? I think they have missed the entire point of Rom. in observing their lives, i see how common sense has served them very well. Wow, Deb. It's disturbing. Most, not all, have btdt with the Church. Okay, maybe a little anger too. Thus securing a good and firm foundation, perhaps? It is very sad that money, power and prestige can buy one out of justice. Julie Anne Smith, at Spiritual Sounding Board, has written a number of article on him, including accusations that he allegedly believes in wife spanking. This may or may not be good advice in some cases, but it is certainly not a rule of thumb in that it assumes that the prior trauma caused the current bad behavior of hurting people and assumes that the person cannot help it when they hurt other people, and assumes that some prior trauma is a life time get out of jail free card for when the alleged victim of prior trauma may continue to hurt people. Tullian Tchividjian and Fortress Press: Dont Legitimate Second Chances Require a Real Track Record of RepentanceFirst? Hopefully exposure like with this blog and especially the Spinderalla blog helps expose it. Surely his dad RC SproulSr would have dealt with it. I had to go things alone, with the depression and the death of a family member. your anger is showing, yes. The record of his life, the record he created and boasted about in his own sermons and publications, the record he established boozing it up in front of his church members, proves that RC Sproul Jr has been abusing the booze for many many years prior to his personal family tragedies. Another poster posted Scripture from one of Pauls letters about not fellowshipping with people who proclaim faith in Christ Jesus, but live a life of continual unrepentant sin. Unfortunately, drunk or sober, he espouses patriarchy, even to the point of rumored wife-spanking. It is a complex topic and there are no easy answers, as weve seen on this thread. but only if the person is dead serious about sobriety. Not born again huh? when H.A. I was excommunicated from my NeoCalvinist church on a trumped up charge, like the godly doctor in his 70s before me, and a godly middle-aged woman in finance before him.). I checked out the comments on the Spinderella blog. Sproul 2s drinking (and whatever other problems that he has) and an intervention by family and friends with a trained professional. This story cuts too close to home. The problem with your narrative is weve seen it all before. That is Gods department. Nonsense. To my knowledge I have never expressed a medical opinion here; other opinions you bet, but never as a medical professional I think. He got to tell me he loved us kids, my sister was incarcerated and my brother was living in another state. Its absolutely inexcusable. I drove to the hospital right after shutting off the gas and water at our house. Someone commented and said that this was the only time that R.C. I thought perhaps that JA and Barbara were referring to the entirety of RC Jrs choices and damage inflicted from his lofty position as spiritual authority, even though from the context that wasnt obvious. I wholeheartedly agree with your comment. If he has been drinking as long as is being alleged, Sproul is at high risk of offending again. No one knows where an alcoholics bottom is and what finally makes that person raise the flag of surrender for help. This is inexcusable and seriously hurts your credibility. 1, Beverly, passed away at 10:05 PM Wednesday, February 1, 2006 in the Ruby Memorial Hospital in Morgantown. u Vk$XXA,0D0@+H $ On the other hand if Sproul has bee covering up and protecting his son then maybe Sproul should be disqualified for protecting and covering. If Sproul Jr is going to go dry in the culture he built or helped to build in the first place, then hes going to have to have the motivation and gumption to change that entire culture. R.C. Oh, so true. We have gone several rounds. Some here believe that people with addictions should be kicked out of the church. Not always. I say this in support of Velour without being critical to either one of you who may have responded from your own pain. I think that the Father weeps over some of His children, if indeed they are His. Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but I will upset folks if I keep talking catch you on the next TWW piece. I wonder if the people who are advocating for alcoholics to be removed from a church mean only specifically a person who also works in a leadership position, such as pastor? You said, When asked we can offer suggestions where they might find help. Based on his history I am sure he did it numerous times without getting caught. Blessings to you both. R.C. Robert Charles Sproul was born February 13, 1939, in Pittsburgh, the son of Robert Cecil and Mayre Ann (ne Yardis) Sproul. He really didnt deserve it, & my Mum, who worked up to 3 jobs & permanent night duty as a Nurse to bring us 3 up without him, didnt deserve that life, though she never never complained. Drunkenness may involve more of a choice than does alcoholism. Generally will not drink around them. If he is putting his son into jobs in ministry (which is my understanding, correct me if I am wrong), he is enabling him in some way. Its rude. Unless dad helped him in starting his own churches. Perhaps if nothing else RC Sproul Sr. shielded and protected his son due his son having his same name and thus the sons actions tarnishing the fathers name. and me on Friday evening: Barbaras comment on Friday at 5:40 p.m. RC Jrs message has long been that heavy drinking is manly and if you want to be a real man (like him?) I personally think I was a piece of crap uncle but thats me. I wouldnt wish it on RC Jr. Few of them are willing and even able to do that. Sproul Jr.s case to have been handled the way it was, and not for the reasons you cited. JA, I addressed that in a blog post on my Miss Daisy Blog some time ago (that my posts at Barbaras blog were censored for mentioning codependency. If a person backslides then they teach this person never was a true believer really never given irresistible grace.. The Bible says that those who profess to be brothers in Christ and are drunkards need to be expelled from the church. God gave me a second chance, and Im very grateful! So far youve been entirely nebulous about it. There is usually a reason when people have strong feelings of negativity, and this issue triggers emotional responses from many of us I also said that down in the road, in his recovery (if hes agreeable to getting clean and sober), he needs to make amends to people individually that he harmed, to families, and to entire churches (including publicly up front) with the help of a sponsor(sober mentor) directing him in how this process should be carried out. As someone who was severely injured by a drunk driver (see bottom of the post), I don't appreciate your "he who is without sin" diatribe. We all grieve over our grown children when they inflict pain on themselves and others knowing that most of the time our help is rejected. I wore a wig to school for about 6 months until my hair grew out enough that I wasnt ashamed of how I looked. We took him in to help in his recovery. I have said nothing medical at all in any way. We dont know. I was contacted by a Christian who lurks here and struggles with addiction, who was deeply pained by what was written (including by Barbara Roberts and H.A.) Secondarily, what were the terms of his probation? And I dont have any sympathy for Driscoll. Since he pled guilty to a felony, there is no question that Sproul is an alcoholic and needs serious counseling. Making the excuses in advance; yes. Sproul, Jr.,s daughter) posted a listing of Sprouls offenses and saved me some time: Drunk driving with children. That doesnt mean there arent possibly a whole host of them out there. Having said that, I suggest you read the verses I gave (1 Cor 5:11-13). (Which, admittedly, was not a part of the original discussion.). So, my personal opinion is that churches need to stay out of medicine and medicine needs to stay out of religion and pew people as well as leadership need to try very hard to quit trying to tell each other what to do in the areas of medicine and certain other areas which we are not discussing here right now. So no, there is no authoritative structure. As Ive already said on Spinderella Sproul, RC Sproul Jr is unregenerate. Drunk/ drug driving maims and kills. The victim of somebody elses alcohol is just as much a victim (dead on the road is what I saw over the years) whether the drunk person was self medicating or whatever the reason. 4. Will his children ever step foot in a church again after seeing their father get publicly humiliated? How does keeping an alcoholic in the church help that person, or, more specifically, rid them of the alcoholism? As far as CPS removing his kids goes, they probably wont as long as she remains in the household, unless there is proof of her abetting his drunk driving with kids in the car. I know people, who are close to me, involved with St. Peters I love and miss dearly. 0.175. The thought makes my stomach turn, in part because it is tied to membership covenants. They have their own logic, and its different from yours. If RSJ confessed his sin, repented of it, and was restored to the Body of Christ, Hallelujah! And thats wonderful news to hear about changed lives in your family. No, apparently all were agreement from the very beginning. Most revealing are the forums and blogs by ex members. Also, we know both vehicles were traveling at 60 mph upon impact. Unfortunately, drunk or sober, he espouses patriarchy, even to the point of rumored wife-spanking. Sproul, founder of Ligonier Ministries, theologian, author, broadcaster, teacher, and pastor, died December 14, 2017. As you and I discussed here yesterday, I am in agreement that Sproul Jr. should be terminated from his job because he is unfit. The Steve Hassen Youtube link helps explain that. Ugh. The last time their PCP prescribed a pain killer without knowing the patients drinking habits what problems with the med did you notice? Finally? After he left St. Peter Presbyterian in 2010 to move to Orlando and join Ligonier Ministries he also part-time preached at a couple of tiny churches started by others, the first of which he was shown the door for stealing church moneys, and the second of which was started by a personal friend of his. I have explained myself and you have explained yourself. Please feel free to skip over reading them since they bother you. On 6/2/17,SpinderellaSproulpostedSpinderella Sproul: Lessons In Spin With RC Sproul Jr. Having failed tomeet the legal criteriaof having his criminal case accepted by the Allen County Drug Court, RC Sproul Jr appeared on June 2, 2017 in Allen County Indiana Superior Court before Judge Samuel Keirns for a pre-trial status conference. I speak from some experience on this. Im the former member of RC Jrs church who contacted Dee. Our records show Robert Charles Sproul (83) as possible relative. I have already covered this in Point #2, that he is not qualified to serve. He lost one wife and two beautiful daughters because of it. That she didnt address him getting treatment does not necessarily mean she is opposed to the idea. The last time their PCP prescribed a pain killer without knowing the patients drinking habits what problems with the med did you notice? Sr. CAN keep Jr. from standing in the pulpit. The other individual was an executive at a corporation (think Sr. Vice President). 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